So some of you have a problem with me?

So it's come to my attention that some of you have a problem with me, but for some reason you can't tell me this yourselves so you've been making complaints to the moderators about it.
So let me make something clear: It's been my policy since the first day I became a moderator that if anybody has had a genuine problem with me or how I act, they can and should tell me without having any fear of me retaliating in any way. I've never punished anybody for telling me, calmly, that I'm doing a bad job and need to shape up. And right now, I don't even have the power to warn people if they do start flinging insults at me.

Going back to my first point, apparently some of you have been complaining, not to me, but to the actual moderators, about me. Right now I'm tired of listening to a go-between politely phrasing people's problems with me to try to make them more palatable. So if you have a problem with me, fucking tell me. That's what I've made this thread for.

I want everything here kept calm (because I'm not having this thread descend into a Charzy V Forum flame war), but apart from that I want to hear any genuine problems anybody has with me, or the way I act, or the way I do my job, or anything else. I'll answer whatever gets posted in the same calm manner as soon as I can.

Looks like everyone that has a problem with you has been telling that to you for some time now, and that you simply ignored them. Seems like the fact they had to run it through a moderator was you being a jerk to them, instead of actually listening to what they were trying to tell you. It's not that they don't want to face you, it's that you refuse to acknowledge their critics.

I didn't make this thread to hear "People have problems with you". I made this thread to hear "This is a problem I have with you and this is why I feel that way". If you have something of the latter to post, go ahead. Otherwise, this isn't the place.

You should realize that I've already said you that. Not my problem if you can't read, but I'll be generous and explain it to you again.

You're an arrogant and pretentious person, that thinks has the reason to mistreat others at his whim. Your ego hardly has a limit, and you find pleasure in treating other people like idiots, showing a supposed intellectual superiority on your side. You are deaf to critics to your work, and when you hear them, you simply dismiss them on the basis that the person expressing them is either stupid or simply hates you. You are afflicted by an over-self-esteeming complex, and that is reflected in your behavior towards the ones you should guide and give examples to.

Boris. Civility.

borisperrons wrote:You should realize that I've already said you that. Not my problem if you can't read, but I'll be generous and explain it to you again.

Not a single point made in this post was mentioned in the previous one, or to me before now. So that's just incorrect.

borisperrons wrote:
You're an arrogant and pretentious person

I like to think I know exactly how important I am, and it's somewhere between the normal people and the headmasters. I've never claimed to be more important than that for the duration of the time I've held this title. So, again, incorrect on both counts.

borisperrons wrote:
that thinks has the reason to mistreat others at his whim.

If you want to give example of how I've treated anybody worse than they've treated me, I'd love to see them.

borisperrons wrote:
Your ego hardly has a limit

Again, I know exactly where my rank stands and where I stand in this roleplay. I don't have any illusions in that regard, and I've supported the idea that I'm more important than I am.

borisperrons wrote:
you find pleasure in treating other people like idiots

I start treating people like idiots the second they start acting like idiots, which for the vast majority of people is a very rare occurrence indeed. I don't find pleasure in it in the same way that I don't find pleasure in doing this, it's just the appropriate response.

borisperrons wrote:
showing a supposed intellectual superiority on your side.

I haven't at any point told anybody that I was smarter than them. Making intelligent arguments doesn't constitute showing off intelligence.

borisperrons wrote:
You are deaf to critics to your work, and when you hear them, you simply dismiss them on the basis that the person expressing them is either stupid or simply hates you.

I listen and consider every argument made against everything I've done. Sometimes other people aren't correct, and sometimes I'm not correct. However, I've never dismissed any argument on the basis that the person making it is stupid. I attack arguments when debating, not people, which is more than can be said for a number of people here.

borisperrons wrote:
You are afflicted by an over-self-esteeming complex

Again, I have no illusions as to how important I am or as to how smart I am. I don't boast or brag about either of those things, and never have. Being aware that I'm smarter and more important than some people here doesn't at all make me for one second believe that I am either the smartest person or the most important person here. I'm neither, and I've never said anything to the contrary.

borisperrons wrote:
that is reflected in your behavior towards the ones you should guide and give examples to.

I'm not here to guide you, nor am I the best example. My job right now consists of advising the moderators on how to do their job effectively, which, as I've been a moderator longer than anybody else on this forum, is a topic which I've become pretty experienced in in the past few years.
Even then, my behaviour to any person here has always been similar to or better than their behaviour towards me, except in a few minor cases, all of which happened a long time ago and none of which affected you.
Considering all of the abuse I've received (including from you), it's hardly surprising that I treat the people who insult me worse than those who do not. And yet, even then, I treat them better than they treat me.


Does that cover everything?

Yuriski wrote:Boris. Civility.

If it gets to the point where The thread reached a level of hostility that I feel uncomfortable with or doesn't fit with this forum, I'll tell you. I made this thread to avoid everything getting caked in over politeness and floweryness.

Charzy, I honestly think you're a great moderator, but as Boris said, you have a slight problem when it comes to listening to others' opinions, which is what makes you a good moderator sometimes, and a bad one at others. Just be more open in the future.

So just to make things clear, Yuri created a private chat were all the people that have a problem with him could discuss in a civil manner.

The civil manner for Charzy is to tell people to shut the fuck up when he's talking, to not interrupt him, to profusely swear at whoever does it because he thinks he's done with his speech, and then, when someone else starts speaking, he interrupts him, telling him to shut the fuck up, because his viewpoint critic of him is obviously a blatant lie.

You want to post a log of that and show the countless times you interrupted me? The fact that you began speaking with a blatant lie?
No, you want to sit here and try to turn people against me by insulting me and not even having the base level of respect for others that's required to let them know the whole story before trying to convince them to believe one side of it.

I'm on a tablet right now, and so I can't post those logs. But please, feel free to show them how you left the second I called you out on your lie.

Boris, you might seriously want to consider some of your actions recently, particularly how easily you'll decide that somebody is conspiring against you. Remember when you called me 'Goebelish' for suggesting that people have lost interest in the current RP and we should restart? Is there anybody now that would say that isn't an obvious fact?

Yes, I remember it, and I apologize for it, since the facts proven me wrong.

Charzy, do you really think that I left that conversation because you debunked my lie? Or maybe it is because I was so fed up with your self contradicting and irrespectful behavior that I decided was best to go somewhere else, instead of bringing a touch of good old tuscanian descendency swearing and cursing in what was a civil discussion?

Your choice.

Jeez, this reminds me of everyone hating Ascen.

Difference being that Ascen had actual moderation power and could ban people/delete accounts.

I think your main problem is taking criticism actually. If alot of people is saying that they think you missbehave or have an bad attitude, you shouldn't call them liars. It is not some giant conspiracy to spread lies about you, but rather how many in the community feel about you. You need to listen to them and take their advice into consideration.

In my opinion you also behaved poorly by insulting people that have done wrong in some regard or for whatever reason. And seriously that is unacceptable behaviour and really needs to stop. No member is expected to talk like that never the less a member of staff. Yes, people here has also behaved poorly in debates or in their actions but that doesn't mean that you need to get to their level. This is not some eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth Babylon.

In chat this continues. We agreed you would get to speak untill you were finished without interuption out of respect by parties. Then we were get to talk and you begin immedietly with interupting not showing any respect to the rule you set up or to the speaker. Even if you think something is a lie, you need to save that for untill he who speaks is finished.

Yeah i must agree with the others, you are one of my favourite moderators, but you do not handle criticism very well.

Appe96 wrote:I think your main problem is taking criticism actually. If alot of people is saying that they think you missbehave or have an bad attitude, you shouldn't call them liars. It is not some giant conspiracy to spread lies about you, but rather how many in the community feel about you. You need to listen to them and take their advice into consideration.

I've never called anybody a liar for giving me criticism.
I called somebody a liar for trying to say that Hellorp didn't act badly when he was called out on not making his posts readable, but that's entirely different.

Appe96 wrote:
In my opinion you also behaved poorly by insulting people that have done wrong in some regard or for whatever reason. And seriously that is unacceptable behaviour and really needs to stop. No member is expected to talk like that never the less a member of staff. Yes, people here has also behaved poorly in debates or in their actions but that doesn't mean that you need to get to their level. This is not some eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth Babylon.

I also haven't insulted anybody in recent memory for having done something wrong. When Hellorp decided to abuse a headmaster for criticising his posts, all I did was make my posts unreadable too to show him what he was doing wrong. Was any harm done to anybody in the end? No.
Was the problem solved? Yes. Hellorp uses paragraphs now. If somebody doesn't like the way they're shown they did something wrong, it just means they're less likely to do it again.

Appe96 wrote:
In chat this continues. We agreed you would get to speak untill you were finished without interuption out of respect by parties. Then we were get to talk and you begin immedietly with interupting not showing any respect to the rule you set up or to the speaker. Even if you think something is a lie, you need to save that for untill he who speaks is finished.

I said that if anybody had a long speech to make, I'd sit quietly and be quiet. That did not and was not intended to apply to every single person talking at once in small sentences. When I called Boris out on his lie, he was finished typing.

no

I am too tired to intervene in the discussion, and I frankly believe I haven't seen enough of recent Charzy to formulate an argumented opinion, but I want only to note that the title of this thread is agressive; this does not really reflect professionalism for a moderator Grand Advisor. It sounds more like you're holding the subject ("some of you") accountable for disliking you.

"Professionalism" is just a way for people to hide what they're saying behind a veil of politeness. I've never in all my time here tried to raise myself above anybody by disguising my words; I won't start now.

Besides, I am holding some of you accountable, for making a secret petition instead of bothering to raise a complaint in the open. Considering my stance on criticism has always been that I want people to tell me whenever I fuck up, I'm not going to even try to say that what went on was anything but an act of sheer cowardice.

Ok, perhaps you are right. Let me phrase it in a way that you won't be pedantic about. You are acting aggressively, which only reinforces the issues people have about you. As a moderator, you are a public figure. You can act aggressively, but no one will appreciate it. Sure, perhaps there are those who are also formulating aggressively against you; however, that doesn't mean you have to go down to their level, nor does it mean you should abandon any more friendlier approach.

Which is perhaps one of the issues. You throw any kind of useful facade away; they make be thin veils, but at the same time you have to recognize the fact that many of the forum members are humans (excluding perhaps some bots that sign up from time to time just to advertise). Thin veils help the mind digest information at a rate that doesn't simply make you have an extreme emotion that would lead to a worse quality of dialogue. (that was oddly put)

Moving on to your second point, I'd say that the reason a petition is going on rather than going out in the open is because people might simply think you fucked up one too many times and/or be too head-up-arse. I can't say your approach to the issue makes it seem any less true.

I don't see how asking if some people have a problem with me is supposed to incite "extreme emotion" in anybody who's still mentally sound.

And in response to that last point, a private petition to get somebody removed from their position (mine holding zero authority, by the way) because they don't like the fact that they're not being polite enough is cowardice. If people think I've fucked up one too many times, they can come out and fucking say so.


All this seems to stem from one simple fact.
People here, for some strange reason, seem to think that a moderator's job is to be polite. It's not. We are not a corporation trying to get you to buy our product. The job of a moderator is to enforce the rules.

Moderators here have never been held to any high standard of politeness of "professionalism" (except in the IC, but then professionalism is good and applies to everybody, because we're roleplaying politicians). Moderators here have never been ordered by the higher-ups in the staff to perfume their words.

What on Earth makes anybody here think that a person must be more polite and "professional" simply because they happen to have the job of enforcing a set of rules? Apart from the fact that the sole duty of a moderator is to deal with other people's shit, what makes you think they're in any way special?

Charzy, I know I don't write my sentences right sometimes, but have some indulgence and attempt to decipher what I tried to say. Normal people can get angry. Frustrated at your actions. Pick whatever word you please.

People here, for some strange reason, seem to think that a moderator's job is to be polite. It's not. We are not a corporation trying to get you to buy our product. The job of a moderator is to enforce the rules.

Technically, yes, you are correct. A dumb moderator (excuse the term, it's used in the sense of having no other criterion for doing its job other than rule violation->cause consequence for violator) will, indeed, only enforce the rules. Just like a dumb policeman; he's only payed to enforce the law, not anything else.
However, I would personally expect more of a moderator. Not only what you always try to push under the carpet as "perfume" and "veiling" and what-ever. We expect someone who can guide a community into a better place. A moderator that can actually improve the quality of the community. Similar to how a great policeman will improve tbe quality of his community.

As a side note, the moderator's sole purpose is not to enforce the rules, but to moderate discussion and roleplay. Rules are a guide and an aid in this. Them being enforced makes sure that punitive moderator actions are consistent, but moderating goes beyond punishment.

P.S: if what you're saying is good, perfuming will make it more elegant; if it's shit, then at least it'll hide the smell.

Charzy wrote:I said that if anybody had a long speech to make, I'd sit quietly and be quiet. That did not and was not intended to apply to every single person talking at once in small sentences. When I called Boris out on his lie, he was finished typing.

No, I wasn't.

Spoiler:

Does it seem like I was done?

Stop making up arguments to support the fact that you are, again, right when it's not true. For you own information, the Skype chat showed that you too weren't typing, but still you kept going with your "speech", and yet we waited for you to finish. This is just another example of what me and the others are trying to tell you, and that you keep refusing to aknowledge, even at theoretical level.


Also, this:

Charzy wrote:I've never called anybody a liar for giving me criticism.

True, you called him a liar for trying to explain you why he feels upset. Not even entering the criticism field, the censor hits well before.

StelarCF wrote:-snip-

Completely agreeing with everything Stelar just said.

You're definitely a very polarizing guy, Charzy. Everyone either loves you or they hate you.

No. Stop. To sum up -

Charzy acted in a way a lot of people were pissed off about.

People were pissed off to the point they wrote a petition to do something with him.

Charzy posts the thread.

General butthurt.

Dot.

Id say theres faults at both sides. Lets stop arguing and make peace guys.